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 Dave Killoran
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#44088
Setup and Rule Diagram Explanation

This is a Grouping: Partially Defined game.

The game sets up a scenario wherein three pilots and three co-pilots are all aboard planes in an air show. This creates a basic setup as follows:

D91_Game_#4_#setup_diagram 1.png
D91_Game_#4_#setup_diagram 1.png (4.02 KiB) Viewed 2824 times
Since there are only three pilots available to fly in the air show, the maximum number of planes that can fly is three. Since Dave and Anna must fly in separate planes, the minimum number of planes that must fly is two. Thus, it is possible for a plane to fly with more than one pilot or copilot. It is also possible for a plane to fly without a copilot. Understanding this confusing point makes the questions much easier.

The third rule establishes that for a plane to fly, a pilot must be on board. Thus, a copilot must have a pilot on board as well, which can be indicated by the rule CP :arrow: P.

The last two rules establish Not Laws for A and D, and corresponding split options for A and D:

D91_Game_#4_setup_diagram 2.png
D91_Game_#4_setup_diagram 2.png (6.4 KiB) Viewed 2824 times
By combining the last two rules, the additional deduction D :dblline: A can be made.

Since D cannot fly with A, and since a copilot needs a pilot in order to fly on a plane, D must fly with either B or C or both. Therefore, if B does not fly with D, C must fly with D, and if C does not fly with D, B must fly with D. This deduction is the key to the entire game. This final inference leads to the setup for the game:

D91_Game_#4_setup_diagram 3.png
D91_Game_#4_setup_diagram 3.png (8.81 KiB) Viewed 2824 times
Incidentally, this game is a repeat of a Logic Game that originally appeared in the 1980s.
 kattykat
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#6195
I can't figure out how to solve questions 20-24 of the Dec.1991 test with the four planes in an air show.
I found a set up for the game on the internet... but still can't figure out the restrictions of the game and solve the questions.
Is there anyone who can help me with this game or somewhere I can go to find the explanation for solving the questions?
 Nikki Siclunov
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#6196
Your job is to distribute 3 pilots (ABC) and 3 co-pilots (DEF) among a bunch of planes flying in an air show. The pilots and co-pilots are already aboard the planes, which means that everyone flies (we just don't know in which plane).

Every plane that's flying needs at least one pilot. We only have 3 pilots, so at most 3 of the planes are actually flying (potentially fewer than 3, if several pilots end up flying together). We have no limitation regarding the number of co-pilots per plane.

A only flies in plane 1 or 4, so either plane 1 or 4 must be flying.
D only flies in plane 2 or 3, so either 2 or 3 must be flying.

Since D is not a pilot, and A doesn't fly in either 2 or 3, we can infer that D must be flying on plane 2 or 3 with B or C (or both).

These rules limit the game significantly:

1. Either two or three planes are flying (it can't be one because of the rules about A and D, and it can't be all four since we don't have 4 pilots)

2. B or C are flying with D in plane 2 or 3. This is the key to the game.

3. A is in plane 1 or 4, but we don't know with whom (if anyone).

Let me know if this helps!
 kattykat
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#6209
Thank you soooo much. Took me just two mins to solve the questions after your explanation...
The wording in this game was just soo confusing.
Thanks again! :)
 josuecarolina
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#7377
NOt sure if I should ressurect this or repost, but:

How in the world were we supposed to assume that the planes were all in the air at the same time? This game killed me because I assumed that each plane could be flown at a separate time during the show. So Frustrating!! I just guessed on the first question and it's the only one I got right! I had to bust out the encyclopedia from Powerscore to figure out what I was doing wrong...but how can I avoid this in the futre?
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 Dave Killoran
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#7380
Resurrection works for me!

This game is an interesting one, and a game that they've used the basic setup for elsewhere. From LSAC's perspective, they'd argue that the phrase "that are flying in the show" in the first two rules, and the lack of linear rules or limitations, is supposed to indicate that this isn't set up in an ordered fashion but as a single event where everyone flies in only one plane. Still, it's a tricky point, and I see where you can think that maybe someone could fly in one plane, land, then hop in another plane and fly again. The one problem is that there are then so many possible solutions and outcomes, that every question would have to be extremely lengthy in order to limit the situation. But that's a pretty abstract point to process under time pressure.

My hope would be that in its current iteration, the makers of the LSAT would add in a phrase or two that clarifies their thinking. They are human however (what!?), so they can and do make mistakes at times.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!
 josuecarolina
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#7386
yea, that does help actually. It shows me I need to read ALL the rules carefully, no just the ones that 'look' important or unusual. I went back to the rules many times during my 8 45, and I just kept glossing over those.

However, I think this is still exceptionally tricky and would have ruined me on a real test :)
 netherlands
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#9363
Hi there,

What is it that allowed you to determine that the pilots couldn't be used in more than one plane? I just went through the game assuming that they couldn't when I couldn't really point out language that was decisive about that.

Obv... in common sense land if all planes are flying simultaneously in the show then we know they can't be used more than once - but the stimulus doesn't give that info. So the whole game I was worrying about whether I was missing something.

Thanks!
 Steve Stein
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#9364
Hi Netherlands,

The games specifies that the three pilots are all aboard planes that are flying in the show, and that no plane flies without a qualified pilot on board. With these rules in place, and without any capacity for remote flight specified, there seems no way to avoid one plane per pilot.

I hope that's helpful! Please let me know whether this is clear--thanks!

~Steve
 netherlands
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#9566
Hm, ok looking back I'm not sure what it is that confused me about this problem because now it makes sense... :ras: .

I guess the only thing that I would need to realize is that there are no minimum and maximum restraints on the planes in this game - they're simply "all available" which would mean that all of them could be used - or simply a few of them could be used.

Also,the very first time I did this problem somehow I didn't take in the fact that "all are aboard planes" for both the pilots and copilots - that is such a silly mistake but I can see how looking over that could have made me feel like this game was a lot more "open" than it actually was.

Thanks for your help!

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