- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 8916
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:30 am
#95088
Below an accepted law school student, Nathan, asks for advice from PowerScore admissions expert Dave Killoran regarding which law school to attend.
Nathan: "Hi Dave,
I have been accepted with a scholarship to both Minnesota Law and Emory. Emory has given me a slightly better scholarship but in light of the school’s higher tuition the difference in cost of attendance is only about $5000 per year. I have pretty much decided on attending Minnesota as it is the higher ranked school (US News #21 vs Emory #30) and I also have close family living in Minneapolis. However, there are a few things that concern me. In terms of employment, Emory seems to place better outside of its region than Minnesota, even though Minnesota outranks it. Emory also seems to have the edge in placement in national firms. Both of these are important stats to me, as I consider portability in a law degree to be very important (I am unsure if I want to stay in either Minnesota or Georgia long-term), and I also would like to try to land as high-paying a job as possible. Do these discrepancies concern you? And do you have an explanation for Minnesota’s lacking in these areas in spite of its high ranking?
Thanks,
Nathan"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nathan,
Thanks for the message!
For those wondering about the stats here, this is the comparison: https://www.lawschooltransparency.com/s ... /minnesota
Being from Minneapolis myself, I know quite about the U and have some reasons behind what you are seeing. Before we get to that, though, you should know they are both very good schools. And don’t let rankings fool you: Emory, although ranked 30th this year, has been as high as #19 within the past decade. In other words, Emory has at times been seen as “just as good” as Minnesota within these rankings (and better, since in 2015 and 2016 when Emory was 19, Minnesota was 20th). Minnesota on the other hand has been remarkably stable and hasn’t bounced around like Emory has–their ranking has been between 19th and 23rd for a while now. Either way, these two schools are closer than the current rankings suggest, which is one of many reasons rankings are deceptive and should be treated with great care.
As far as hiring, take a look at one of the key stats: state placement. Emory is 42% in GA, Minnesota is 62% in Minnesota. This relates to an interesting fact about life in the upper midwest: people tend to stay there. In fact, I once read that Minnesota as a state has the highest retention of people who grow up there as compared to all other states. Meaning, once someone is there, they stay there. The law school isn’t the same as the state, but you can see that a solid 20% more of the grads stay in state vs Emory, and given that the Minneapolis legal market isn’t massive, that limits options. By the way, even the transfer numbers support this “stay at home” theory: only 4 transferred out of MN; Emory, by comparison saw 15 transfer out, presumptively towards what they saw as greener pastures.
That point about state placement isn’t an equalizer, though. Minnesota grads don’t get out there as much, and consequently they aren’t known as much. The second placement state is Wisconsin, which means 2/3 of all MN grads stick in the MN-WI area. Only 5% head to markets like NY, which means recruiters see more of students from other schools than MN. That certainly is the case with Emory, which has a NY placement rate of 13.6%. Depending on the recruiter this can be good or bad: bad in that they might be a bit more familiar with Emory grads, good in that sometimes being different makes you stand out.
To me, the difference here in placement is hard to read, and so I fall on to the default advice I give when it’s too close to call: where do you think you will do better? Because your grades after 1L mean EVERYTHING, and being at the top of your class in Minnesota will be better than being in the middle at Emory.
Thanks!"
Nathan: "Hi Dave,
I have been accepted with a scholarship to both Minnesota Law and Emory. Emory has given me a slightly better scholarship but in light of the school’s higher tuition the difference in cost of attendance is only about $5000 per year. I have pretty much decided on attending Minnesota as it is the higher ranked school (US News #21 vs Emory #30) and I also have close family living in Minneapolis. However, there are a few things that concern me. In terms of employment, Emory seems to place better outside of its region than Minnesota, even though Minnesota outranks it. Emory also seems to have the edge in placement in national firms. Both of these are important stats to me, as I consider portability in a law degree to be very important (I am unsure if I want to stay in either Minnesota or Georgia long-term), and I also would like to try to land as high-paying a job as possible. Do these discrepancies concern you? And do you have an explanation for Minnesota’s lacking in these areas in spite of its high ranking?
Thanks,
Nathan"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nathan,
Thanks for the message!
For those wondering about the stats here, this is the comparison: https://www.lawschooltransparency.com/s ... /minnesota
Being from Minneapolis myself, I know quite about the U and have some reasons behind what you are seeing. Before we get to that, though, you should know they are both very good schools. And don’t let rankings fool you: Emory, although ranked 30th this year, has been as high as #19 within the past decade. In other words, Emory has at times been seen as “just as good” as Minnesota within these rankings (and better, since in 2015 and 2016 when Emory was 19, Minnesota was 20th). Minnesota on the other hand has been remarkably stable and hasn’t bounced around like Emory has–their ranking has been between 19th and 23rd for a while now. Either way, these two schools are closer than the current rankings suggest, which is one of many reasons rankings are deceptive and should be treated with great care.
As far as hiring, take a look at one of the key stats: state placement. Emory is 42% in GA, Minnesota is 62% in Minnesota. This relates to an interesting fact about life in the upper midwest: people tend to stay there. In fact, I once read that Minnesota as a state has the highest retention of people who grow up there as compared to all other states. Meaning, once someone is there, they stay there. The law school isn’t the same as the state, but you can see that a solid 20% more of the grads stay in state vs Emory, and given that the Minneapolis legal market isn’t massive, that limits options. By the way, even the transfer numbers support this “stay at home” theory: only 4 transferred out of MN; Emory, by comparison saw 15 transfer out, presumptively towards what they saw as greener pastures.
That point about state placement isn’t an equalizer, though. Minnesota grads don’t get out there as much, and consequently they aren’t known as much. The second placement state is Wisconsin, which means 2/3 of all MN grads stick in the MN-WI area. Only 5% head to markets like NY, which means recruiters see more of students from other schools than MN. That certainly is the case with Emory, which has a NY placement rate of 13.6%. Depending on the recruiter this can be good or bad: bad in that they might be a bit more familiar with Emory grads, good in that sometimes being different makes you stand out.
To me, the difference here in placement is hard to read, and so I fall on to the default advice I give when it’s too close to call: where do you think you will do better? Because your grades after 1L mean EVERYTHING, and being at the top of your class in Minnesota will be better than being in the middle at Emory.
Thanks!"