- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 8917
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Mar 11, 2022 9:42 am
#94198
Below, PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran advises an accepted law school student, Nate, on his law school descision.
Nate: "Hi Dave,
I have a similar quandary to one to which you responded to before.
I’m comparing WashU (with a $33K/year scholarship) to Saint Louis U (with a full ride). Obviously it’s a rather uncommon scenario because the schools are so far apart in rank, which is why I’m particularly interested in your opinion. I have some savings to cover cost of living (and likely a small chunk of tuition), so I anticipate WashU would leave me with $80K to $100K in debt.
As of now, my intention is to pursue BigLaw (although, of course, it would be nice to have the additional income flexibility provided by lower debt if I were to change my mind). I would be happy to stay in St. Louis and, consequently, had been leaning toward SLU. But I also have a background of working in sports and have lately become more intrigued with the idea of pursuing BL in other markets (most likely Chicago) at firms that have particularly robust sports law practices — such as Winston & Strawn, Proskauer Rose, etc., which obviously would take me into a totally different stratosphere re: necessary qualifications as compared to, say, Polsinelli or your typical big firm in St. Louis.
My question is two-fold. First, as a straightforward question of job placement, do you think $80K-100K is worth it for WashU — would it give me enough of a chance at those firms to justify the price tag? Second, from a scholarship negotiation standpoint, do you think it would be worth the risk not to deposit at WashU (but express my continuing interest) in the hopes that I can capitalize on their reputation for playing the scholarship game well into the summer? For context on the second point, I’m a super-splitter with a low 3s GPA and a 172, so I highly doubt the offer goes up before their deposit deadline, but it seems possible it could increase later if they needed a few more scores to lock in a certain LSAT median.
I recognize that’s a lot of information — thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nate,
Thanks for the message! Oddly enough, I’m fairly familiar with two of the firms you’ve mentioned here: Proskauer has been PowerScore’s counsel in the past, and I recently worked on an issue where Polsinelli was involved. My dealings with both were excellent, which is to say that stepping down from the biggest of biglaw firms still puts you in good stead
First, let’s return to that prior post and update my reply there. In that case, the debt issue was lower than your proposed debt, but here’s what we had back then:
As far as depositing, given your splitter status you may not have much or any leverage in scholarship reconsideration. However, you could deposit WashU and then double-deposit elsewhere if needed. This is a not uncommon practice and gives you both more leverage and more safety in the process.
This is likely going to be a waiting process for you for a while, so in the meantime lock in your info on debt so you are operating from a position of certain knowledge. Thanks and please keep me posted!"
Nate: "Hi Dave,
I have a similar quandary to one to which you responded to before.
I’m comparing WashU (with a $33K/year scholarship) to Saint Louis U (with a full ride). Obviously it’s a rather uncommon scenario because the schools are so far apart in rank, which is why I’m particularly interested in your opinion. I have some savings to cover cost of living (and likely a small chunk of tuition), so I anticipate WashU would leave me with $80K to $100K in debt.
As of now, my intention is to pursue BigLaw (although, of course, it would be nice to have the additional income flexibility provided by lower debt if I were to change my mind). I would be happy to stay in St. Louis and, consequently, had been leaning toward SLU. But I also have a background of working in sports and have lately become more intrigued with the idea of pursuing BL in other markets (most likely Chicago) at firms that have particularly robust sports law practices — such as Winston & Strawn, Proskauer Rose, etc., which obviously would take me into a totally different stratosphere re: necessary qualifications as compared to, say, Polsinelli or your typical big firm in St. Louis.
My question is two-fold. First, as a straightforward question of job placement, do you think $80K-100K is worth it for WashU — would it give me enough of a chance at those firms to justify the price tag? Second, from a scholarship negotiation standpoint, do you think it would be worth the risk not to deposit at WashU (but express my continuing interest) in the hopes that I can capitalize on their reputation for playing the scholarship game well into the summer? For context on the second point, I’m a super-splitter with a low 3s GPA and a 172, so I highly doubt the offer goes up before their deposit deadline, but it seems possible it could increase later if they needed a few more scores to lock in a certain LSAT median.
I recognize that’s a lot of information — thank you in advance for any guidance you can provide!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nate,
Thanks for the message! Oddly enough, I’m fairly familiar with two of the firms you’ve mentioned here: Proskauer has been PowerScore’s counsel in the past, and I recently worked on an issue where Polsinelli was involved. My dealings with both were excellent, which is to say that stepping down from the biggest of biglaw firms still puts you in good stead
First, let’s return to that prior post and update my reply there. In that case, the debt issue was lower than your proposed debt, but here’s what we had back then:
So, has much changed? Not really in terms of stats. WashU is running at about a 40% placement in national firms + clerkships, vs SLU’s 23%. Rankings-wise (which is not a big deal, but still a measure), WashU is up to #16 and SLU is currently at #91. The biggest difference is that your proposed debt is 80K-100K vs 55K for the other reader. I’d first pin down that debt number, since 80K is a lot more palatable than 100K. Second I’d look at the monthly payment on those debt numbers and consider what income is needed to cover those. That is what you will pay for the benefit of the higher employment chances at WashU, should you choose to go there. It could well be that at $80K it becomes doable for you.
…a direct comparison of the schools is useful: https://www.lstreports.com//schools/compare/washu/slu/. I want you to look at a few things, such as the employment rating (WashU’s is demonstrably better) as well as things like the large firm rating and clerkships rating. That biglaw/clerkship rating is a sort of measuring stick for how the school is viewed on the bigger stage, and WashU is the clear winner here. Rankings too, show that same positions: WashU is #18 and SLU is #88, and a comparison of the LSAT/GPA numbers shows a significant difference. WashU is getting better students and is viewed in a much more positive light overall.
So, the real question reduces to, “is that higher ranking and better reputation/placement worth $55K?” I tend to think it is. If it was $100K or $150K, that would be a much tougher question in my opinion, but $55K doesn’t worry me as much, and you can see a *definite* difference in what you are getting.
As far as depositing, given your splitter status you may not have much or any leverage in scholarship reconsideration. However, you could deposit WashU and then double-deposit elsewhere if needed. This is a not uncommon practice and gives you both more leverage and more safety in the process.
This is likely going to be a waiting process for you for a while, so in the meantime lock in your info on debt so you are operating from a position of certain knowledge. Thanks and please keep me posted!"