#10 - Decision makers tend to have distinctive styles. One

[Dave Killoran]

No, I see the “certain.” In fact, I see it in every answer choice. But I don’t think I understand how that word makes answer choice B weaker. Are you saying that if a statement is qualified that I can’t diagram it? Because I just wrote “they” in my diagram to be a shorthand for “some decision makers.”

Hi Jerry,

No, Brook wasn't saying either of those things! As he noted, "The real problem with (B), however, is not whether or not one misses the "some"" (emphasis added, and this "some" here is meant to refer to "certain"). What you did, using "they" works just fine diagram statements like this, so well done there!

How would you write out the conditional in B, if it were up to you?

I wouldn't, actually! This is an example where although we can diagram the statement, I don't see that we obtain additional insight from doing so.

Also, if they are very much aware of their own beliefs (which I understand) then that means that they know what they don’t believe in. In that case, doesn’t the stimulus support that they’re going to present a lot of ideas, just so they can play devil’s advocate?

No, because the answer says they don't know what they believe until "after they have presented a variety of ideas to their advisers," and the stimulus suggests these decision-makers do in fact know what they think (the "real reservations etc" part).

Thanks!

[jerry]

Ohhh, I see now. Yeah, I was focusing too much on the conditional and forgot about the “after.”

Thanks!

[blade21cn]

Just a quick followup question, Dave wrote in the previous post: "the stimulus suggests these decision-makers do in fact know what they think (the "real reservations etc" part)." But I thought having reservations means having doubts. The dictionary definition of "reservation" is: a qualification to an expression of agreement or approval. So how can these decision makers have doubt, while at the same time know for sure about something? Am I misreading "real reservations"?

By the way, I eliminated (B) because it says "until after they have presented a variety of ideas to their advisers." It shouldn't hinge on decision makers' presentation of these ideas. This sounds like a shell game to me. The real crux is how these advisers react to decision makers' variety of ideas. The stimulus told us the reason behind decision makers' such behaviors is to see if their real reservations are idiosyncratic or are held independently by their advisers. If their advisers do not provide any real feedback, it wouldn't make any difference whether the decision makers present these ideas or not. He still wouldn't be able to ascertain whether it's just him or such ideas/concerns are shared by others as well. Not sure if this thinking is valid.

[Dave Killoran]

Hmm, this is getting convoluted at this point with statements, responses, then restatements of those responses! This makes it really tough for us to come back and then try to figure out the thread of ideas from the past. So, I'll try to address your questions, but out of context of the specific reply I was making to a very specific question, I might lose some meaning

In my comment about knowing what they think, I was not intending to imply they had made a final decision, just that they had a very real grasp of the issues present. I can know what I think about parts of something ("real reservations") without having made a final decision, if that makes sense. We know these people are seeking final answers "while making up [their] minds," and this is part of the process.

As for (B), to me the "do not really believe in" part is more problematic in the analysis. I hadn't really considered the analysis you give since I felt the quoted part made it a problem immediately.

Thanks!

[Coleman]

Hi, I waded through the whole posts for this question, but nobody posted what I'm curious about, so here I go.

The passage states, "In fact, decision-makers of this sort will often argue vigorously for a particular idea, emphasizing its strong points and downplaying its weakness"

I was hesitating between A and D but ended up striking out A because it contains the word ACCURATE. "If certain decision-makers' statements are quoted accurately and at length, the content of the quote could nonetheless be greatly at variance with the decision eventually made." I see every other segment in this answer choice corresponds to the original passage, except the ACCURATE part.

If the decision-maker emphasized strong points and downplayed weakness, doesn't this strategy make it inaccurate? Is there any clue in the passage that confers the accuracy of the statement made by decision-makers? This was what led me to choose D because if the decision-maker emphasizes the strong point and overlooks the weakness, doesn't this make them are IN FAVOR OF ideas which they do not believe as D said?

[Jeremy Press]

Hi Coleman,

You're missing what the "accurately" is modifying in answer choice C, which is the term "quoted." To be "quoted accurately" simply means that the quotation matches what the speaker said, not that the quotation matches what is true in the real world or even what the person believes.

If I say, "The sky is pink, and Jupiter is the smallest planet in our solar system," and you run a screaming headline that says, "BREAKING: LSAT instructor says "sky is pink, and Jupiter is the smallest planet," then the headline has quoted me "accurately," even though my statements don't match what's true in the real world (nor do they match my beliefs!).

The real problem with answer choice D is that the stimulus doesn't actually tell us how the decision makers being described ultimately "decide" on the given issue. We know about what they say when they're trying to come up with a decision, and we know why they say those things. But we don't know what decisions they ultimately make. So we can't say whether they "frequently" make such decisions, because we haven't been given any information about what they ultimately decide.

Hope this helps!

Jeremy

[alylespier]

Hi-- I selected B for this question. Am I understanding that this answer is not correct because decision makers are not arguing points that they're looking to believe but to understand their own reservations? Is the belief part the incorrect portion of this answer? TY, Aly

[Jeremy Press]

That's correct, Aly!

The decision makers in the stimulus are not arguing points that they're personally uncertain about. In fact, they're arguing points that they personally have "real reservations about" (in other words, points that they themselves definitely don't believe in) to see whether their personal reservations are held by others. So, the decision makers know what they believe in (and what they don't believe in). Thus, answer choice B is talking about a different kind of decision maker (not one being discussed in the stimulus).

I hope this helps!

[jordanwbb8@berkeley.edu]

Hello,

Can you please explain why Answer B would be incorrect?

For this question, I was stuck between A and B. At first, I thought the "they don't not really believe" was problematic, but then I spent more time looking at B and started to doubt A. The stimulus stated that "one such style is for the decision maker to seek the widest possible input from advisers and to explore alternatives while making up his or her mind and then mentions the phrase "real reservations". Thus, I thought the "making up his or her mind" meant that there was uncertainty or that certain decision makers did not know entirely what they believe in. In other words, they have an idea about something, but they have reservations and want to see if their advisors share the same views independently.

[Rachael Wilkenfeld]

Hi Jordan,

For answer choice (B) we don't have anything in the stimulus that says the decision makers don't know what they don't like. In fact, it seems like they do know it--that's part of the way they select ideas to test with their advisors. What they don't know going in is if their REASONS for not liking a particular idea is reasonable, so they test it with their advisors to hear their reasoning.

Answer choice (A) on the other hand is correct. We know that these decision makers sometimes make arguments they don't believe in to test their reasoning. That means they could be quoted as saying things that don't ultimately match up with their decision.

Let's look at the difference between the two using an example of what I should have for dinner. I'm deciding for my family if we should get Chipotle or pizza. I've already decided how I feel---I am wary of Chipotle after a recent order that was made with chicken instead of tofu. But, I think to myself, maybe I'm being unreasonable. I decide to ask my family what their thoughts are, arguing strongly for the awesomeness of Chipotle. I want to hear what they think about possible downsides without giving up that I already think there are downsides.

The whole time, I know what I really believe in. But if you take quotes from the family discussion, you would see arguments AGAINST what I do believe---that is arguments in favor of Chipotle.

Hope that helps!