#19 - Dillworth: More and more people are deciding not to

[Adam Tyson]

acp25 asked:

Hi!

I am working on the Logical Reasoning Question Type Training Book on p. 67, question #29 which is a Main Point question. The answer key states that the question is from December 1995, LR 1 #19.

I can't figure out why E is the right answer. I may also mistakenly identified the conclusion, which I chose as the last sentence after "Therefore..." Please advise. Thank you!

Thanks for the question about this fairly complex stimulus! In the second question, we are asked to identify "the point of Travers’ rejoinder." We might look at that as a Main Point question, but it doesn't fit into the usual framework of such a question because Main Point is almost exclusively something that the author (Travis, in this case) actually said. In other words, a true Main Point is almost always explicit, rather than implied. But Travis never says what he's getting at, and only implies something.

While some rare Main Point questions do this, it might be useful to think of this question more like a Purpose question, which we usually find only in Reading Comp. They question we have to answer is why Travis said what he said. What was he trying to accomplish? Looked at from that perspective, we might prephrase something like "to show that trying to perpetuate your values through your kids probably won't work anyway." Travis is suggesting that Dilworth may be wrong, and maybe the people deciding not to have kids are on to something. Dilworth seems to think having kids is worth it even if they are ungrateful, because they still provide the best chance for ensuring that your values live on. Travis thinks that ungrateful kids will not carry on your values, because they will reject them.

So, look for the answer that best describes "Dilworth might be wrong about passing on your values through ungrateful kids."

It looks like the problem was that you focused on Dilworth's argument, rather than on Travis' rejoinder (his response). Once you get the focus right, based on that question stem, you should have no problem now seeing why E is the point that Travis was trying to make. Let us know if that doesn't help clear things up for you!

[pavandeep9]

Thank you for the above stated information, but what is the reasoning for (A) being incorrect? It seems like an extremely attractive answer choice to me, thanks for your help in advance!

[KelseyWoods]

Hi pavandeep9!

Answer choice (A) states that Travers' point is that Dilworth is wrong to assume that children acquire values only from their parents. But Dilworth does not assume that children acquire values ONLY from their parents. Children could acquire values from their parents, as well as from their education, experiences, platonic/romantic relationships, etc. Even having values from all of these different places, children could still retain their parents' values and so their parents values would live on in them (alongside all the other values acquired), as Dilworth argues. Travers' point is actually that Dilworth is mistaken in assuming that children retain their parents' values at all. If your children reject your values, then those values won't live on in them, which basically negates that as a foolproof reason to have children.

Hope this helps!

Best,
Kelsey

[pavandeep9]

Hi pavandeep9!

Answer choice (A) states that...

Thank you so much for the clarification Kelsey, I really appreciate it!

[andriana.caban]

Travers' point is actually that Dilworth is mistaken in assuming that children retain their parents' values at all. If your children reject your values, then those values won't live on in them, which basically negates that as a foolproof reason to have children.

Can you please explain why (D) is incorrect? The desire to pass on values should not be a factor in someone's decision to have children because, as Travers states, children can reject these values. Based on Kelsey's reasoning, I would think (D) is correct.

I'm still confused as to why (E) is a better answer choice than (D).

[Adam Tyson]

The problem with D, andriana, is that it is far too strong. Travers isn't saying that the desire to perpetuate values should never be a factor in making this decision. The point is that if you think your kids are going to be ungrateful, then you should expect them to reject your values, so don't have kids in that situation if you are only trying to perpetuate those values. In that case, you probably won't get what you were hoping for.

Put another way, Travers has no problem with giving some consideration to passing on your values when deciding whether to have kids. But if you think your kids will be ungrateful little punks, then don't have them just to try and pass on those values, because that won't work.

[nickp18]

Hello!

I got this question right, but wanted to check to see if my reasoning is correct.

(A) is incorrect because Dillworth is not arguing where values stem from, not to mention the fact that Dillworth said values ONLY come from parents. Also, Travers is not talking about where values come from either.

(B) is incorrect because Travers isn't saying it's a mistake to dismiss the sacrifices parents make, he actually doubles down and says that parents should take into account the potential sacrifices.

(C) is incorrect because 1) we don't know if this is a well-known fact, 2) we can't assume children have deeply held values, 3) we don't know if the values will oppose one another.

(D) is incorrect because we can't say someone can't have a certain desire or assume that people do/don't have those values.

(E) is correct because Travers is reiterating the fact that the sacrifices have actually ARE an important consideration to be made before having children.

Thanks in advance!

[katehos]

Hi nickp18!

In order to evaluate your reasoning, let's quickly break down Dillworth's argument, and then Travers' rejoinder.

Dillworth is basically arguing that:
      People aren't having kids because they require sacrifices and are ungrateful
      However, children give people the best chance of passing on their values
      So, anyone with deeply held values shouldn't avoid parenthood because they're afraid to make sacrifices or have ungrateful kids

Travers then points out that children are often ungrateful because they reject their parent's values. This counters Dillworth's conclusion by showing how whether or not children are ungrateful is actually an important consideration for parents who want to pass down their values, since kids are often ungrateful because they already rejected the parental values.

With this in mind, let's get into your explanations!

Your explanations for (A), (B), and (C) are correct -- good work! They're all pretty much irrelevant to Travers response and we don't have much information on any of them, so they're not the main point.

In terms of (D), you're right that we don't want to assume on the LSAT, but I think you missed the mark a bit here. The biggest issue with (D) is not that we can't claim people do or do not have a certain desire, but rather, that Travers does not say the desire to perpetuate values should not be a factor AT ALL. That's a huge overstatement! Instead, Travers is saying that something Dillworth eliminated from consideration for people with strong values (in this case, the consideration of ingratitude) should actually be a consideration because the ungratefulness stems from rejecting values, which would make it pretty hard to pass those values on!

In terms of (E), you're correct that Travers is saying something is, in fact, an important consideration before having children, but I'd shift your focus more towards the ungratefulness as opposed to the sacrifices. They're certainly intertwined, but the specific consideration is that the ingratitude for the sacrifices stems from a rejection of values, not the sacrifices themselves!

Great work on this question!

I hope this helps
Kate