JD180 wrote:Adam Tyson wrote:I'm going to have to disagree with you, JD180. Marife absolutely DOES think this movie is a murder mystery, and should be treated as one. If she didn't think it was a murder mystery and ought to be treated as one, then why would she have measured it using the standards for a murder mystery? It's a bad murder mystery, per Marife, but it's still a murder mystery.
Your thought is a bit of a leap unfortunately. There are many reasons people do things in life, but it's not our job on the LSAT to bias ourselves one way or another. She could have treated it as a murder mystery initially for many reasons: She might have had the impression it was a murder mystery going in based on the previews, or she might have been told by a friend it was a murder mystery. None of this matters, just suggesting "why would she have measured it that way?" is a faulty way to assess any situation.
Based on the facts of the question that I outlined above very clearly without interjecting "why would she etc etc if she didn't etc etc?", it is clear that it is not a murder mystery simply on a mathematical basis.
It looks like the staff have difficulty with this question, so I'll let it be.
Hi JD,
This is an interesting conversation, and I don't disagree that there's a bit of a leap here in what Marife says. The question is whether LSAC sees that leap as problematic. Them selecting (C) as the answer shows us that they don't. So let's talk a bit more about it, although I suspect we'll succeed only in explaining their position. Those that see this problem as flawed likely won't be swayed by my explanation below
This has never been my favorite problem, and I wish the word "required" had not been used by Marife since it is such a strong word and one that in LSAT context brings with it a lot of meaning. That said, I understand the argument some students make about Marife not thinking this is a murder mystery. As stated, it appears to be contrapositive, and since a necessary condition didn't occur, the thinking is that the sufficient can't have occurred. But, we know LSAC thinks Marife sees this as a murder mystery, so why do they think that? To me, it comes down to the idea that the conditional relationship being cited is then used to draw a conclusion about the quality of the movie. Marife uses the violation information to substantiate (in her mind) the idea that the movie is bad. The movie failed to do what it was supposed to do (because murder mysteries are supposed to provide all the clues), and thus she concludes
not that it isn't a murder mystery, but instead that it's bad. Now, I know based on the comments you posted that you don't agree there, and that's completely reasonable:) There is no denying we have to see/recognize the assumption she makes as she goes from the violation idea to it's a "bad movie," and I'd prefer that hole wasn't there. You have to stretch a bit with that assumption—which I realize is something that is bothering you—but to me it's a reasonable enough stretch (and the LSAT allows you to make assumptions when reasonable). You don't see it as reasonable, hence the differing opinions.
About that contrapositive, my take there is that she wouldn't bring that "requirement" up unless she accepted it was a murder mystery. As I said above, "The movie failed to do what it was supposed to do (because murder mysteries are supposed to provide all the clues)," and that is a key point to me: she classified it as a murder mystery and then was unhappy because it didn't do something she expected it do to. That doesn't mean it's NOT a murder mystery in her eyes, just that it's a deficient one. I don't see her conditional relationship as a strict conditional in the sense we think of it on the LSAT. Instead, it's more like a conversation where someone says, "You HAVE to go to this party"—the "have" is a desire not a defining necessity. Again, I realize that your take is different, and I'm okay with that. I don't think I can change your view here, but as long as you know what LSAC thinks what they do, then I'm fine.
Thanks!