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 srcline@noctrl.edu
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#23340
Hello

So I initially thought this game was pretty straight forward basic linear game, but I started running into some problems.

So here is my setup.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

F is either 3 OR 5
lOPEZ cant be in 4 or 6

Jday 1 :arrow: Hall visits site 2
(+) if Hall does not visit site 2 :arrow: Jones does not view the site on day 1

Kday4 :arrow: Lday 5
(+) If L does not view the site on day 5 :arrow: K does not view the site on day 4

Block: HG

Is this correct so far. I know I have to be missing some inferences.

Thankyou
Sarah
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 Dave Killoran
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#23363
Hi Sarah,

That is correct so far—well done! The next step here is to consider how some of the common elements link together. for example, look at the first and fourth rules: they both contain a reference to "day 5." Is there a way that they could be connected? Yes, there is: If K is on day 4, then we know that L is on day 5. What would that then to do F? From that first rule, it would force F to be on day 3, leading to the following inference:


..... ..... ..... K4 :arrow: L5 + F3


Are there any other connections like that that you can see? There are :-D

The first step in making inferences is to connect together common variables and elements from two or more rules. Almost every game allows you to do that, and it's a fast and relatively way to start seeing how things fit together. Think of it like dominoes: you are trying to see how things fall into place one after the other; you just need to find a starting rule and then see what connects to that rule.

I hope that helps. Thanks!
 David Boyle
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#23364
srcline@noctrl.edu wrote:Hello

So I initially thought this game was pretty straight forward basic linear game, but I started running into some problems.

So here is my setup.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7

F is either 3 OR 5
lOPEZ cant be in 4 or 6

Jday 1 :arrow: Hall visits site 2
(+) if Hall does not visit site 2 :arrow: Jones does not view the site on day 1

Kday4 :arrow: Lday 5
(+) If L does not view the site on day 5 :arrow: K does not view the site on day 4

Block: HG

Is this correct so far. I know I have to be missing some inferences.

Thankyou
Sarah

Hello,

Pretty much, though some other inferences can come from placing the HG block at various places. For example, if you place it at 2 and 3, and put J in 1, then F must be in 5. So L can't be in 4 or 6, and neither can K be in 4, because that would put L in 5, where F is. So M must be in 4, K in 6, and L in 7. That solves a lot, obviously. (Including question 2, maybe)
Also, if you put K in 4, and L in 5, then F must be in 3. Then the HG block could go in 1-2 or 6-7.
So try putting various combinations together, and see what happens.


David
 srcline@noctrl.edu
  • Posts: 243
  • Joined: Oct 16, 2015
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#23397
Hello,

Thankyou both for explanations.

So far I got

K4 :arrow: L5 + F3

J1 :arrow: Block HG

IS this correct?

Thankyou
Sarah
 Nikki Siclunov
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#23402
Sarah,

This is correct, but terribly incomplete. There is a great deal of additional inferences you can make if you play a bit with the conditional rules.

For instance, what if J is 1? Clearly, we know that H will be 2, and - given the block - G will be 3. Recall, however that F must be either 3 or 5. So, in that case F must be 5. What about L? L cannot be 4 or 6 (second rule); consequently, it must be 7. Furthermore, from the contrapositive of the fourth rule, we know that if L is not 5, K cannot be 4. Clearly, then, K cannot be 4, and must therefore be 6. M is left to be 4:

J1 :arrow: J H G M F K L

I wouldn't want to solve the entire game for you, but hope this gives you an idea of what we're looking for when we talk about inference-making.

Thanks!
 studyhelp20
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  • Joined: Dec 09, 2020
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#82388
Hello Power Score Support Staff,
Can you please provide me with a more straightforward picture diagram of the correct setup, rules, and inference for this game? It is hard for me to visualize the complete diagram setup, rules, and inferences from the previous questions that were asked. Thanks for the help.

Sincerely,
Brennan
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 KelseyWoods
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#82415
Hi Brennan!

I'll give you the basic diagram for the rules, but this game has many possible inferences that I'm going to challenge you to explore for yourself first! Once you have some inferences, you can ask us to confirm that your inferences are correct. But the only way to get better at inference making is to work on making them yourself :)
Screen Shot 2020-12-15 at 12.10.43 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-12-15 at 12.10.43 PM.png (30.16 KiB) Viewed 142 times
A couple of hints/tips to get you started:
Start with your conditional rules.: If J is first, you know H is second. What does that mean for your other rules? If J is first, you can actually figure out where every other variable goes. See if you can do it! Then find out what happens if K is 4th--this scenario should end up with 3 possible orders.

Hope this helps! Good luck inference-making!

Best,
Kelsey
 VamosRafa19
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  • Joined: Nov 14, 2020
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#82451
Hi,

I understand if you guys don't want to go through all the inferences and what not. My question is if it advisable to start plugging in a bunch of scenarios during a time crunch? I understand plugging in J in 1 is easy enough and is a good place to start. Then K in 4 is also a good place to start. But after that how much do we want to keep going? Even after plugging those in there's still a lot of scenarios left. How far down the rabbit hole do we want to go in terms of making possibilities and inferences in a conditional game like this? Obviously the questions address a lot of these scenarios but not all? So is it worth trying to identify all of them?
 Robert Carroll
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#82550
Vamos,

Unless I were trying to do templates, I would probably only do the hypotheticals you talked about. You're also right that the questions are all (excepting the first) local, so they're inducing minidiagrams anyway.

As for why I wouldn't do templates, I don't see any great reasons to do them. I have two choices for F, but neither one seems to lead easily to any other inference. The conditionals are going to be tough to make templates from - we'd need three templates for each (reflecting the three possibilities allowed by a conditional - that its conditions are both true, that they are both false, and that the sufficient is false while the necessary is true).

Robert Carroll

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