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 Adam Tyson
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#3480
While "either...or" rules in logic games typically do not indicate "both," I believe in this rare case it does mean both, and that you should interpret it as requiring not laws for the 10th Century under both the first and fourth sites. It's all in the wording here, the placement of "than does". Take out the word "does" and it changes the meaning. I'll defer to my more learned colleagues on the board to explain why - I'm relying in this case on more of my intuition than I am on any rule of construction that I can point to. It would be completely understandable, in my opinion, to misinterpret this rule to mean "one or the other, not necessarily both," but "both" is what's intended.
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 Dave Killoran
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#3486
Hi Kathryn,

Adam is 100% right on this point, but I've had the benefit (misfortune? :D ) of being asked this exact question previously, so let me expand a bit on what he said. What you have found is a feature of the English language that Law Services is exploiting. I had planned to add a note about this in the next edition of our explanations, so I’m happy to address it here.

First, from Law Services’ viewpoint, the “both” interpretation is clearly what they intended, because without this interpretation, some of the “correct” answers would no longer be provably correct. For example, in question #13, answer choice (B) would suddenly be a possibility if the first site could date from the 10th century. However, knowing that Law Services intended this interpretation doesn’t help us during a game because obviously we don’t know the answers to the game prior to doing it! I only mention it as being indicative of what they ultimately wanted the interpretation to be.

Second, and more importantly, from an English standpoint, in most cases, “either…or” means “one or the other.” For example, if we see the rule “either A or B must attend,” this means that at least one of the two must be there; they are not both required to attend. In this particular case, however, we should note that the word “either” is preceded by the conjunction “than” and is used at the end of a comparison. Where this is the case, “either” actually means “both.” For example, “He is taller than either of the other two boys on the team” means that he is the tallest of the three, and “I like History better than either Biology or Physics” means that History is my favorite of the three classes mentioned. In the same sense, if I graduated more recently than either of my brothers, I must be the most recent graduate.

Third, could they have been clearer? No doubt they could have. But, I’ve discovered over time that there are fair number of situations where I wish they had stated it more clearly (like saying “both” in this case). I think that sometimes they aren’t interested in perfect clarity, but rather in whatever they feel is minimally defensible in case someone asks about it.

Finally, the good news is that situations like this have only appeared occasionally on the LSAT, so thankfully you are not likely to have to face an identical situation on your test. And the fact that you are perceptive enough to understand this usage and question it speaks volumes for you future LSAT performance.

I hope the above helps. Thanks and good luck with the studying!
 Adam Tyson
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#3487
Thanks for expanding on that, Dave. I should edit my original reply - it's not the "does" that changes the meaning, it's the "than". At least I knew it was something to do with that little phrase! Good to know, and a useful note to add to my discussion of "either...or" in my classes.

Adam
 KathrynJ
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#3512
Thanks, gentlemen! (I do hope it bodes well for the future LSAT performance...)
 szamias
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#4301
I do not understand this game whatsoever. I realize that G cannot go into space 2 and that neither space 4 nor 5 can be O, thus they can never be 8.

'The site visited third dates from a more recent century than does either the site visited first or that visited fourth.' --- This is saying space 3 comes LATER than 1 OR 4, but not both, correct? Thus, how would G, for Q #16 not be able to be in first, second or fourth?

Also, if possible, can you please go through each question as I literally missed every single on with the exception of #14. I have no idea how we can even determine how many spaces F can occupy... unless it is truly as simple as acknowledging that G has to make an appearance and thus F can be in 4 spaces?

Finally, this is a somewhat random Q that doesn't necessarily apply to this game: If the rule states: 'If K is placed on Monday then G is placed on Tuesday.' This means that G CAN be on T but K does not necessarily have to be on M. Is that correct??

Please help! THANK YOU!!!!
 Adam Tyson
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#4314
Good questions, szamias, and I think you've stumbled on a fairly common error in part of your analysis. The wording of that last rule, that says "The site visited third dates from a more recent century than does either the site visited first or that visited fourth" isn't truly an "either" situation - it's both. For reasons I can't quite explain (and I've tried before - this question has come up previously), it's the "does" in there that does it. Site 3 has to be more recent than site 1 AND more recent than site 4. That will give you some not laws - 1 and 4 can't be the 10th century, 3 can't be the 8th century.

Since we already eliminated the 8th century as an option for the 4th site, as you stated, and now it can't be from the 10th, it must be from the 9th century. Since it can't be an O site, and now we know it can't be a G site (since it's not the 10th century), it must be a site visited by F. Oh, and since site 4 is 9th century, and site 3 is more recent, site 3 must be 10th (which will help a lot with question 14).

Try adding that to your setup and now run through the questions, and see if it doesn't make a world of difference. Meanwhile, I am going to hunt through the forum to find the previous answer to that same question, because I believe one of my colleagues did a better job of explaining it.

Adam M. Tyson
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 Dave Killoran
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#4315
Hey Szamias,

This is a really interesting game, and one I discuss in detail in the LSAT Logic Games Bible. Regarding that 5th rule, the language there is extremely tricky, and we had the opportunity to expand on the meaning of that language a while back on this forum. That discussion can be found at: http://forum.powerscore.com/lsat/viewto ... 3487#p3466.

Before going through the whole game, can you perhaps give me an overview of what materials you've been using to study so far? That will help me better tailor my answer and also avoid using terms that might be unfamiliar. I will note that if you missed almost every question, the problem lies in your setup and initial understanding of the game. It's tough to get a lot of questions right if the foundation is shaky :)

Finally, your interpretation of the K on Monday and G on Tuesday rule is correct. Well done!

Thanks!
 Adam Tyson
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#4316
Looks like Dave and I were answering simultaneously - and it was Dave that did the better job the last time I encountered this one, too. He's good! Check that older answer, szamias - it's enlightening.

Adam
 szamias
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#4320
Awesome, thanks guys. I actually took the LSAT full length courses and thus do not have the powerschool bibles, rather the 3 lesson books and test prep book. I found this game particularly tricky because I was unable to figure out the proper setup, to Dave's point.

The 8th, 9th and 10th and the G,O,F initially made me think that the setup should look something like this:

_ _ _ _ _ (Century)
_ _ _ _ _ (G/O/F)
1 2 3 4 5

I've been working my way through virtually all of the exams provided through Powerscore online and I have done majority of the homework questions in the books. I am not sure whether the most recent exams I have randomly chosen out of the pack are more difficult or if I am over preparing and actually hurting myself. I usually do not miss any LG questions, let alone an entire game, yet somehow, my exam scores are worsening, not improving. Tricky, tricky! :cry: :cry: :cry:
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 Dave Killoran
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#4328
Hi Szamias,

That's the right base for this game. The big benefit in this game is that because there are only 3 centuries and 3 archaeologists, anytime 1 of them gets knocked out of contention, then only a dual-option remains. So, that really helps reduce the options, and the two rows appear as follows in the final setup:

8/9.....9......10......9......9/10 ..... (Century)
F/O...F/O....___......F......F/G ..... (G/O/F)
1 ..... 2 ..... 3 ..... 4 ..... 5

Having all those restrictions noted makes this game much easier.

Don't worry too much about score fluctuations at this point--it does happen, and it is not something to be overly concerned about. Instead, focus on the setup to the games, especially like the one above where the setup makes or breaks you. Seeing that each space has only three options, and then realizing the implications of that is critical, and it's exactly the type of thing that occurs on any given LSAT.

Good luck!

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