#15 - Local, Could Be True

[Administrator]

Complete Question Explanation
(The complete setup for this game can be found here: lsat/viewtopic.php?t=11905)

The correct answer choice is (E)

The condition in the question stem is worded in a clumsy fashion. Let’s examine the statement piece by piece to derive what the test makers meant to say.

The question stem states that “there are exactly two songs on the CD that both precede V and are preceded by Y.” The portion that states that “there are exactly two songs on the CD that both precede V,” means that there are exactly two tracks in front of V, which would be diagrammed as follows:

Dec 06_M12 game #3_cr_game#3_#15_diagram_1.png

The portion that states that “there are exactly two songs on the CD that...are preceded by Y,” means that there are exactly two tracks behind Y, which would be diagrammed as follows:

Dec 06_M12 game #3_cr_game#3_#15_diagram_2.png

Combining those two statements (they are combined by the “and” in the question stem) yields the following diagram:

Dec 06_M12 game #3_cr_game#3_#15_diagram_3.png

The challenge is now to place that split-block on the main diagram. Because V is restricted to fifth or seventh, V is a logical starting point. If V is seventh, then Y would have to be fourth, which is impossible since S must be fourth. Thus, V must be fifth, and therefore Y must be second under the conditions in this question:

Dec 06_M12 game #3_cr_game#3_#15_diagram_4.png

Of course, when Y is second, T must be first and W must be third (because T W). Also, when V is fifth, X must be seventh, and thus the entire song order is established.

Answer choice (A): This answer choice is incorrect because V must be fifth.

Answer choice (B): This answer choice is incorrect because X must be seventh.

Answer choice (C): This answer choice is incorrect because Y must be second.

Answer choice (D): This answer choice is incorrect because T must be a new song.

Answer choice (E): This is the correct answer choice. W could be either a new song or a rock classic.

[smile22]

Hello,

I have a question regarding Q15 in the LG section of this test. Can you please explain the wording of this question? I don't understand the question and so I had trouble setting up this local question. Thank you in advance.

My initial set up for this game is below:


R/N: N _ _ _ N R N

Song: (T>W,Y) S X/V Z V/X

[Robert Carroll]

smile,

Your initial setup looks good.

The question is simply adding a local condition that there are exactly 2 songs between Y and V. Thus, since Y is first, exactly two songs "are preceded by Y" and "precede V".

Given the options for Y (1, 2, or 3), you can try each out to see if Y could be there, by putting V 3 spaces ahead of Y (3 because there need to be 2 songs between them).

If Y is 3rd, V would be 6th...but Z is there, so that doesn't work.

If Y is 2nd, V would be 5th...this seems to work.

If Y is 1st, V would be 4th...but S is there, so that doesn't work.

So Y must be 2nd and V 5th, which makes T 1st, W 3rd, and X 7th. Four of the answers can't be true anymore, and one is still an option. If you want to figure that out on your own, go ahead; I'll give the explanation here so you can refer to it afterwards:

Answer choice (A) is wrong because V must be 5th.

Answer choice (B) is wrong because X must be 7th.

Answer choice (C) is wrong because we saw that Y can't be 3rd.

Answer choice (D) is wrong because T must be 1st, and the 1st track is a new composition, not a rock classic.

Answer choice (E) is possible because W's status (rock classic or new composition) is still up in the air; the 3rd slot is an unknown, and W is in the 3rd slot for this question. So (E) could be true.

[smile22]

Thank you for the explanation!

[Mark83]

The wording in this question gave me problems. I had read it initially as "If there exactly two songs on the CD that both precede V" full stop, then "and are preceded by Y."

My initial thought was that's impossible given the game setup/board cause there would always be at least 4 songs ahead of V (some combo of TWYS). The "exactly two" fooled me when taken separately. You have to read it in totality "preceding "v" AND preceded by "y".

How common are these clumsy sentence constructions on the LSAT? What percentage of people got this question wrong cause it was frustrating for me.

[Francis O'Rourke]

Hi Mark,

This is a memorably frustrating question. On this test, it was the single most difficult Logic Games question, with roughly half of students answering it correctly. For comparison, the second most difficult question on this set of four Logic Games saw just short of 60% of test-takers get the correct answer.

You are unlikely to see this exact wording on the your exam. However, you are very likely to see some similarly challenging or confusing phrasings. It is a good idea to look over and figure out exactly what you misinterpreted so that you can generalize your mistake a bit to avoid future errors.

It seems like you did this already! So long as you remember to read the entirety of a local rule, without stopping before the word "and" and without improperly inputting a period, you should be in better shape on test day. Take another look at question #10 from this same exam to see grammar that is not all that different.

Furthermore, finding a seeming contradiction, as you did with your initial misinterpretation is a good sign that you are reading too quickly. Slow down and start reading over the question at a slower pace, making sure to read every single word to catch your mistake. Just like in the Logical Reasoning, the Logical Games can present problems that are fundamentally grammatical or interpretive in nature, so you will need to diligently analyze every statement you read.

I hope that this helps, but let us know if you have other questions!

[Mark83]

Hi Mark,

This is a memorably frustrating question. On this test, it was the single most difficult Logic Games question, with roughly half of students answering it correctly. For comparison, the second most difficult question on this set of four Logic Games saw just short of 60% of test-takers get the correct answer.

You are unlikely to see this exact wording on the your exam. However, you are very likely to see some similarly challenging or confusing phrasings. It is a good idea to look over and figure out exactly what you misinterpreted so that you can generalize your mistake a bit to avoid future errors.

It seems like you did this already! So long as you remember to read the entirety of a local rule, without stopping before the word "and" and without improperly inputting a period, you should be in better shape on test day. Take another look at question #10 from this same exam to see grammar that is not all that different.

Furthermore, finding a seeming contradiction, as you did with your initial misinterpretation is a good sign that you are reading too quickly. Slow down and start reading over the question at a slower pace, making sure to read every single word to catch your mistake. Just like in the Logical Reasoning, the Logical Games can present problems that are fundamentally grammatical or interpretive in nature, so you will need to diligently analyze every statement you read.

I hope that this helps, but let us know if you have other questions!

Thanks Francis. I'll look over that question. It was just surprising because though Logic Games usually have complicated wording, the one's I've done so far have also been pretty precise and not really awkward like this one.

[crrice1]

Hey there!

I was having trouble with the general set-up of this game... # 13 & 15 specifically gave me trouble. Regarding the rules of the game, I'm not understanding how a new composition is understood to be 7th. I've looked over this a few times, and read through the explanation and can't seem to find what is tripping me up. Rule 5 states: each rock classic is immediately preceded on the CD by a new comp. However, it doesn't say anything about what must come after a Rock classic. Could you explain how you determined 7 to be a new comp?


Thanks,
Christina

[James Finch]

Hi Christina,

The reason that the 7th track has to be a new composition is that we're told two things by the rules: track 6 is a rock classic, and every rock classic must be immediately preceded by a new composition. This means that track 5 must be a new composition in order to precede the rock classic on track 6, but also means that track 7 cannot be a rock classic either, as it would be preceded by another rock classic, as well as track 1, which doesn't have anything to precede it. So we can infer from these rules that rock classics cannot be on adjacent tracks, although new compositions may be. In order to represent this inference, I would write out:

R NRN

with a box around it.

Hope this clears things up!

[crrice1]

Yes, that makes sense! Thanks!