#21 - Local, Could Be True

[Dave Killoran]

Complete Question Explanation
(The complete setup for this game can be found here: lsat/viewtopic.php?f=162&t=5831)

The correct answer choice is (E).

The condition in this question stem creates a vertical block including at least the following variables:

Because Q is in the block, from the third rule the block cannot be third, and thus must be first or second. From the first rule, F cannot be first, and must be second or third. Therefore, the block must always be before F in this scenario, and thus M must always be visited earlier than F. Accordingly, answer choice (E) is correct.

[salsaden]

Hi I was taking a look at question 21 and was having difficulty discerning why answer choice A can not be true. I understand that the correct set up to derive answer choice E is
M: S,Q,V
F:R/t
H: R/T
but I do not understand why answer choice a can not be true when I can set up this hypothetical
F: S
M: Q, V
H: R, T

[Adam Tyson]

I hope I am looking at the right question, salsaden - answer choice A for Question 21 on the test I am looking at says that one site visit includes both R and S. In other words, R and S visit the same site as each other. That's not shown in your second proposed solution - you have S going to F and R going to H. Perhaps you misread that answer as saying that R and T visit the same site as each other? Or perhaps your copy of the test has a typo? Double-check that answer against your solution, and compare it to what I am seeing, and let me know if there is still an issue.

Adam M. Tyson
PowerScore LSAT Instructor

[salsaden]

Yes I completely misread that answer choice! thanks so much for pointing that out!

[douglajo]

I believe the Logic Games Setup Encyclopedia is treating this question incorrectly, but still arriving at the correct answer. The encyclopedia says that after the local condition is applied F cannot be first and that M must come before F. However, I think this local condition gives you two templates, one of which allows F to be first:

Template 1:
F: S
M: V Q
H: R T

Template 2:
M: V Q S
F: R/T
H: T/R

This still allows us to get to the right answer because the question is a "could be true" not a "must be true." Is my reasoning correct?

[Jon Denning]

Thanks for the question! And you are correct: both of the possibilities you show would be acceptable under the local restrictions of this question (M and F are visited 1st and 2nd, although not necessarily in that order). And that's why E is the correct answer, since it describes one of those possible orders. I think what the book is demonstrating is a specific case where M would be ahead of F, which is the explicit possibility that E gives.

Nicely done and keep at it!

[Basia W]

Good morning,

I have a question regarding #21. I am not sure how E can be correct due to rule 3 in that Q must be before both R and T and rule 4 that Vandercar must be before Sasada. If morning side comes before farmington, then Q and V must be in the morning side visit, followed by S by itself in the farmington visit followed by the homestead visit featuring R and T. But this would be violin the fourth rule since V is coming first.

I found this game rather difficult- what chapter should I possibly review for this game (I am taking the online course).

Thank you for your help as always!

Very best,

Basia

[Nikki Siclunov]

Hi Basia,

I think you misunderstood a rule. Rule 4 does not stipulate that V must be before S; on the contrary: the site visit that includes Sasada cannot take place after any site visit that includes Vandercar. In other words, either S > V, or else S = V.

Try this again and let me know if this works. The game is a classic Advanced Linear type, discussed at length in Lesson 4.

Hope this helps!

[Basia W]

Good evening,

that is in fact how I underwood the rule (albeit I did not include the v=s option.) However I still don't understand how e is correct in this case since both Q and V are part of the morning side visit and the Farnahm visit needs to be before the Homestead visit (making it either first or second) but due to the fourth rule S would need to be by itself in farnham as the first visit.

thank you for your help,

best,

Basia

[dwestermeyer3]

This may be a little late to the party, but since I'm not a definitive answer to this post, and since this problem gave me a lot of fits, I'll share the answer I was able to come up with, if that's okay.

While the question stem says that Q and V visit Morningside, there is nothing saying that ONLY Q and V visit Morningside. This would allow for the possibility that Q, V, and S visit Morningside altogether as the first visit, leaving R and T attend the following Farnham and Homestead visits.