- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 8916
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:52 am
#45278
Below is a question from a student, Tori, about Tori's law school decision. PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran responded.
Tori: "Good evening!
I am writing because I feel totally stuck between two choices for law school: University of Cincinnati, and Cleveland-Marshall College of Law. The benefits of each one seem to really balance out, and I am having trouble figuring out which is better. I am aspiring to work in the public interest area.
At UC, I would be receiving a $20,000/year scholarship. Based on my calculations using AccessLex for Cost of Living and my current loans, I would owe a little less than $90K total after undergrad and law school. The school is ranked 65 in the nation, and is a top 40 public law school. Additionally, I have been offered a paid fellowship with the Innocence Project for the summer after my 1L and part time during my 2L, which is the exact type of work I would really want to do after graduating.
At Cleveland Marshall, I have been offered a guaranteed full scholarship as a part of the Dean's Law and Leadership Fellowship, so long as I maintain good academic standing. I could live at home for free, or very cheap at a friend's apartment, which would allow me to start paying off my current undergraduate loans. I also just really love Cleveland, and would have a hard time leaving! However, this school is ranked far lower (114) and lacks a lot of the same established experiential programs that are at Cincinnati. They also have lower employment statistics (50.2% score on lst reports, vs 71.2% at Cincinnati).
My main concern is that by taking on more debt at Cincinnati, I will be unable to take the jobs I am most interested in because of my payments. However, if I attend Cleveland Marshall, I fear that I will not be able to find the employment that I desire. I am at a complete toss up right now, and would love any insights into what might be the better path!
Best,
Tori"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Tori,
Thanks for the question, and good job on using AccessLex--they have some good info
There are several points in this decision that I find interesting:
1. Cleveland-Marshall's employment numbers: they aren't great. You made note of it, and for other readers, the head-to-head comparison is here:https://www.lstreports.com/compare/cinc ... cleveland/. I think you are right to be very wary, although a free education is certainly a great counter-balance to those numbers.
2. The Cleveland-Marshall attrition rate. It's over 5% yearly (7.4% last year), and that to me is always a bad sign. Good schools don't lose students at that rate, and you can see the UC number was just 1% last year. They work to keep the struggling students and not many of the top students transfer out.
3. The total debt at UC: it's under $100K, so that makes it a bit more manageable. If we were looking at $130K or 150K, then I'd be far more concerned, but your number isn't entirely unmanageable.
4. The fact that both UC has set you up to have great 1L summer experience with a paid fellowship. This is hard to beat if it's what interests you! And, obtaining that 1L Summer job is for most people, fraught with tension. Here they have you covered.
5. The fact that you love Cleveland. I'm a believer that people perform best when they are happy and comfortable, and Cleveland looks like a great setup for you. Could you get into a similar groove at Cincy? Probably, but only you know for sure.
Overall, I have some doubts about CM Law but they have risen in recent rankings, which is a sign they are working on it (and their offer to you reflects that). I also think UC is a solid school, and there is a lot to be said for having better options coming out of school. Is that worth $90K? I'd be inclined to think so, but critics would point out that at CM, even if you can't find a job you still aren't saddled with a debt load. So, overall I lean towards UC, but consider that debt carefully.
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!"
Tori: "Good evening!
I am writing because I feel totally stuck between two choices for law school: University of Cincinnati, and Cleveland-Marshall College of Law. The benefits of each one seem to really balance out, and I am having trouble figuring out which is better. I am aspiring to work in the public interest area.
At UC, I would be receiving a $20,000/year scholarship. Based on my calculations using AccessLex for Cost of Living and my current loans, I would owe a little less than $90K total after undergrad and law school. The school is ranked 65 in the nation, and is a top 40 public law school. Additionally, I have been offered a paid fellowship with the Innocence Project for the summer after my 1L and part time during my 2L, which is the exact type of work I would really want to do after graduating.
At Cleveland Marshall, I have been offered a guaranteed full scholarship as a part of the Dean's Law and Leadership Fellowship, so long as I maintain good academic standing. I could live at home for free, or very cheap at a friend's apartment, which would allow me to start paying off my current undergraduate loans. I also just really love Cleveland, and would have a hard time leaving! However, this school is ranked far lower (114) and lacks a lot of the same established experiential programs that are at Cincinnati. They also have lower employment statistics (50.2% score on lst reports, vs 71.2% at Cincinnati).
My main concern is that by taking on more debt at Cincinnati, I will be unable to take the jobs I am most interested in because of my payments. However, if I attend Cleveland Marshall, I fear that I will not be able to find the employment that I desire. I am at a complete toss up right now, and would love any insights into what might be the better path!
Best,
Tori"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Tori,
Thanks for the question, and good job on using AccessLex--they have some good info
There are several points in this decision that I find interesting:
1. Cleveland-Marshall's employment numbers: they aren't great. You made note of it, and for other readers, the head-to-head comparison is here:https://www.lstreports.com/compare/cinc ... cleveland/. I think you are right to be very wary, although a free education is certainly a great counter-balance to those numbers.
2. The Cleveland-Marshall attrition rate. It's over 5% yearly (7.4% last year), and that to me is always a bad sign. Good schools don't lose students at that rate, and you can see the UC number was just 1% last year. They work to keep the struggling students and not many of the top students transfer out.
3. The total debt at UC: it's under $100K, so that makes it a bit more manageable. If we were looking at $130K or 150K, then I'd be far more concerned, but your number isn't entirely unmanageable.
4. The fact that both UC has set you up to have great 1L summer experience with a paid fellowship. This is hard to beat if it's what interests you! And, obtaining that 1L Summer job is for most people, fraught with tension. Here they have you covered.
5. The fact that you love Cleveland. I'm a believer that people perform best when they are happy and comfortable, and Cleveland looks like a great setup for you. Could you get into a similar groove at Cincy? Probably, but only you know for sure.
Overall, I have some doubts about CM Law but they have risen in recent rankings, which is a sign they are working on it (and their offer to you reflects that). I also think UC is a solid school, and there is a lot to be said for having better options coming out of school. Is that worth $90K? I'd be inclined to think so, but critics would point out that at CM, even if you can't find a job you still aren't saddled with a debt load. So, overall I lean towards UC, but consider that debt carefully.
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!"