- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 8916
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:20 am
#44818
Below is a conversation between PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran and a student, Mark, regarding Mark's law school decision.
Mark: "Hi, I am struggling a bit to make my decision and, having read your insightful comments, am wondering what your thoughts would be.
I am W/L at most T-14 schools but have received the following offers.
BU ($90K scholarship)
WashU ($70K scholarship)
USC ($125K scholarship)
Any clear winner here? Are placements at any of these better than others outside of the respective regions?
I am going directly from my undergraduate program - are any of these more likely to help me get meaningful work experience/build my resume'?
Many, may thanks."
Mark: "Allow me to add that I am very fortunate in that costs are not an issue. While I am open to many career paths, a career in academia is nice to dream about.
Thanks again!"
Dave Killoran: "Hey Mark,
Thanks for the question! I have a question first: What's your full COA at each school, factoring in travel, etc? I ask since I don't know where you live, and these three schools are all across the US (literally!), and I would suspect that your cost of living and travel would vary a fair bit at each.
If all else is equal, I would be between WashU and USC. While these schools are all ranked very closely, the employment numbers at WashU and USC are better than BU. USC certainly made a great offer to you, but they do cost more than WashU up front, and WashU does slightly better in placement. USC has a great alumni network, however, which can be helpful.
So, I'd be down to those two schools, but I'd want to know the black and white cost difference before making a final call.
Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!"
Mark: "Dear Dave,
I am very grateful for your comments. The USC scholarship is actually $135K. The full COA differential is
about $25K over three years, in favor of USC.
USC - $81K less $41K scholarship = $40K/year
WashU - $71K less $23K scholarship = $48K/year
I am on the East Coast and probably would not choose to settle in STL or LA. NYC would be my first choice. Of course, three years could easily change that.
Thank you again.
Mark"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Mark,
Great, thanks for the extra info! I actually didn't see the cost comment as it posted while I was replying, so that's very useful.
In a case where any possible interest in academia is considered, it's often about the clerkship jobs that you can obtain. In fact, the "prestige" factor of a school often can be assessed by the clerkship and biglaw hiring percentages, since those tend to be the two most desirable job types. Schools that place well in those arenas are showing that the best employers want their grads. Let's look at each school:
USC Clerkships: 3% (includes state)
USC Biglaw: 38%
From: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/usc/jobs/
WashU Clerkships: ~7.5%
WashU Biglaw: 29%
From: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/washu/jobs/and http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/em ... y-2017.pdf
So, at first glance, things look a bit mixed. USC places better in large firms, but that's likely a function of being so proximate to the large legal markets in LA and SF. WUSTL does better in clerkships, but that's likely also a product of being in the midwest and having access to the slightly less competitive courts (as opposed to California, where USC grads compete frequently with Stanford and Berkeley Law grads; that said, a clerkship is a clerkship just like a biglaw job is a biglaw job no matter the reason).
WashU, not surprisingly, hires better into NYC, but again that's likely a function of many USC grads deciding to stay in CA (about 89% hired into California).
So, it's really a toss up in many ways, and in cases like this, I always give the same advice: pick the school you feel best about on a personal level. Your performance in schools--especially that first 1L term--means everything to hiring, and if you can hit the ground running and do better at one school over the other, that opens all the doors. Both schools are good and can get doors open; you need to choose the one that allow you to perform as well as possible, and how happy and comfortable you are at the school plays a big role in that.
Tough decision, but I hope that helps. Please let me know what you decide. Thanks!"
Mark: "Hi, I am struggling a bit to make my decision and, having read your insightful comments, am wondering what your thoughts would be.
I am W/L at most T-14 schools but have received the following offers.
BU ($90K scholarship)
WashU ($70K scholarship)
USC ($125K scholarship)
Any clear winner here? Are placements at any of these better than others outside of the respective regions?
I am going directly from my undergraduate program - are any of these more likely to help me get meaningful work experience/build my resume'?
Many, may thanks."
Mark: "Allow me to add that I am very fortunate in that costs are not an issue. While I am open to many career paths, a career in academia is nice to dream about.
Thanks again!"
Dave Killoran: "Hey Mark,
Thanks for the question! I have a question first: What's your full COA at each school, factoring in travel, etc? I ask since I don't know where you live, and these three schools are all across the US (literally!), and I would suspect that your cost of living and travel would vary a fair bit at each.
If all else is equal, I would be between WashU and USC. While these schools are all ranked very closely, the employment numbers at WashU and USC are better than BU. USC certainly made a great offer to you, but they do cost more than WashU up front, and WashU does slightly better in placement. USC has a great alumni network, however, which can be helpful.
So, I'd be down to those two schools, but I'd want to know the black and white cost difference before making a final call.
Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!"
Mark: "Dear Dave,
I am very grateful for your comments. The USC scholarship is actually $135K. The full COA differential is
about $25K over three years, in favor of USC.
USC - $81K less $41K scholarship = $40K/year
WashU - $71K less $23K scholarship = $48K/year
I am on the East Coast and probably would not choose to settle in STL or LA. NYC would be my first choice. Of course, three years could easily change that.
Thank you again.
Mark"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Mark,
Great, thanks for the extra info! I actually didn't see the cost comment as it posted while I was replying, so that's very useful.
In a case where any possible interest in academia is considered, it's often about the clerkship jobs that you can obtain. In fact, the "prestige" factor of a school often can be assessed by the clerkship and biglaw hiring percentages, since those tend to be the two most desirable job types. Schools that place well in those arenas are showing that the best employers want their grads. Let's look at each school:
USC Clerkships: 3% (includes state)
USC Biglaw: 38%
From: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/usc/jobs/
WashU Clerkships: ~7.5%
WashU Biglaw: 29%
From: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/washu/jobs/and http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/em ... y-2017.pdf
So, at first glance, things look a bit mixed. USC places better in large firms, but that's likely a function of being so proximate to the large legal markets in LA and SF. WUSTL does better in clerkships, but that's likely also a product of being in the midwest and having access to the slightly less competitive courts (as opposed to California, where USC grads compete frequently with Stanford and Berkeley Law grads; that said, a clerkship is a clerkship just like a biglaw job is a biglaw job no matter the reason).
WashU, not surprisingly, hires better into NYC, but again that's likely a function of many USC grads deciding to stay in CA (about 89% hired into California).
So, it's really a toss up in many ways, and in cases like this, I always give the same advice: pick the school you feel best about on a personal level. Your performance in schools--especially that first 1L term--means everything to hiring, and if you can hit the ground running and do better at one school over the other, that opens all the doors. Both schools are good and can get doors open; you need to choose the one that allow you to perform as well as possible, and how happy and comfortable you are at the school plays a big role in that.
Tough decision, but I hope that helps. Please let me know what you decide. Thanks!"