- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 8916
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:22 am
#57760
Below is a conversation between PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran and an international student, Nick, regarding Nick's decision to study law in the US.
Nick: "Hi Dave!
I am a law student from Singapore. I graduated from the National Uni of Singapore recently with a law degree and reasonable grades in law school (not too bad but nothing spectacular. I will be doing the bar exam here in Singapore and then my pupillage at an intl law firm.
My long term goal however is to move to the US and practice there. As such, I am hoping to go do an LLM first (aiming for Northwestern, BU or UCLA). I hope to do well in the LLM and make contacts at the uni so that I am eventually able to transfer to the JD program. Do you think this is a good idea?"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Thanks for the message, and hello to you in beautiful Singapore! Let me ask you a question here: is your idea to get an LLM based on the fact that you want to keep working while waiting to get into a JD program, or is it solely aimed at using that to get into a JD program? If it is solely to transfer, that is a viable pathway, but do your research at each school and find out how many students they typically take from the LLM program, and whether they will take them without an LSAT score (some do such as UCLA, some don't).
So, as long as the school takes a reasonable portion of LLMs, it's a plan that can work well.
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks and good luck!"
Nick: "Hi Dave! Thank you so much for your reply!
Just to update, the LLM pathway is sortof like my back up plan to get into the JD program (because in truth the conversion rate from LLM to JD is historically low in most top schools). Instead, now I will be focusing on applying to the JD program straight. I'll be taking the LSAT this Oct and hope to get a good score.
But I was just wondering about a few other questions:
1. Does the fact that I have a prior undergraduate law degree (LLB) actually enable me to apply for a US JD? I emailed Northwestern and they said yes, but I think Harvard does not allow it.
2. How would my grades in law school as an undergraduate be seen? I understand that each school posts a rough GPA but that is in relation to the US metrics. What are my chances if I did decent in law School in Singapore? Supposedly National Uni of Singapore (NUS), Faculty of Law is the best in Asia - how does the fact that I was an above average (slightly above B) but not very spectacular be viewed in the US (in truth, though NUS enjoys a sterling reputation in Asia, I doubt people in the US have heard of it)?
3. Does the fact that I would have qualified for a Singapore bar, have done my pupillage at an international law firm and have a whole lotta legal internships help in my application?
4. What sort of LSAT score should I set as my target if I wish to get into one of the Top 20 Law schools in US?
5. Lastly, does the fact that I am an international student put me at a disadvantage compared to US applicants?
These are a lot of questions but I sincerely hope to tap into your expertise for this matter. Thanks for your earlier reply again and have a good weekend.
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Thanks for the reply! We've moved into some very specific questions, and as you can see, different schools have different policies. So, for questions #1 and #2, I have to defer to the schools you are applying to--they are the best place to get specific answers.
#3: Yes, it will help, without question
#4: Same scores as any US applicant: mid- to upper-160s into the 170s.
#5: No, plenty are accepted every year!
Thanks!"
Nick: "Dear Dave,
Many thanks for your reply. Just as an update. I got 163 for my LSAT, which is frankly lesser than I wanted (i was hoping at least for a 165). With that said, what do you think are my chances for BU law and USC? and should I apply for early decision to one of the Top 20 schools?
looking forward to your response.
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Your chances are slightly better at BU due to their LSAT medians being lower, if I recall correctly.
Early decision is your call--there has to be a school you love so much you will go there for sure if accepted. That's not always the case for everyone, so it depends on you
Thanks!"
Nick: "Dear Dave,
One last thing, if I were to apply for an early decision application, how would you recommend that i apply? and is it possible to apply ED to more than 1 school? Sincerely appreciate your help!
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Typically if the school has a *binding* ED contract, you can only apply to that one school.
also, here's some info on the value of ED:
https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/applyi ... -not-to-ed
Thanks!"
Nick: "Dear Mr. Killoran,
Thank you so much for your response. Apologies if I've been asking too many questions and sincerely appreciate you taking time to answer them.
1. Just wondering, with a 163, do you think I would stand a good chance if I applied ED to one of the lower ranked T14 schools such as Georgetown or Cornell. The L25 medians of both are 161 and 163 respectively so it seems my 163 is in the ballpark.
2. Secondly, do you have any page on writing personal statements for law school?
Once again, thank you so much for your help!
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Thanks, it's no problem! My vagueness comes from you are asking me questions that are so broad and have so many variables that I can't give a great answer Could you get in ED to one of those schools? Sure! Do I know how likely it is? Not really from just your LSAT score.
As far as the personal statement, here's my lengthy seminar I did on it. This contains a lot of my thoughts on how to get to a great result:
https://vimeo.com/94191768
Enjoy!"
Nick: "Dear Mr. Killoran,
Thank you for the lengthy seminar! That 1.5 hours was definitely well-spent.
As an aside, do you think that it would be a good idea for me to add an addenda explaining my relatively low LSAT score. The reason I wish to give is that I was simultaneously preparing for and appearing for my Bar examinations here in Singapore (which really was the case) and that if I had enough time to prep I would have done better.
I'm just afraid of the admissions committee looking unfavorably upon it and interpreting it as if I am unable to multi-task. What would your suggestion be?
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
No, I wouldn't use that explanation. It is never met favorably because it reflects the fact that you either didn't properly prioritize the test or you didn't manage your schedule well enough. And, they'd say, why take it if you weren't totally ready?
Better to not draw attention to that point"
Nick: "Hi Dave!
I am a law student from Singapore. I graduated from the National Uni of Singapore recently with a law degree and reasonable grades in law school (not too bad but nothing spectacular. I will be doing the bar exam here in Singapore and then my pupillage at an intl law firm.
My long term goal however is to move to the US and practice there. As such, I am hoping to go do an LLM first (aiming for Northwestern, BU or UCLA). I hope to do well in the LLM and make contacts at the uni so that I am eventually able to transfer to the JD program. Do you think this is a good idea?"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Thanks for the message, and hello to you in beautiful Singapore! Let me ask you a question here: is your idea to get an LLM based on the fact that you want to keep working while waiting to get into a JD program, or is it solely aimed at using that to get into a JD program? If it is solely to transfer, that is a viable pathway, but do your research at each school and find out how many students they typically take from the LLM program, and whether they will take them without an LSAT score (some do such as UCLA, some don't).
So, as long as the school takes a reasonable portion of LLMs, it's a plan that can work well.
Please let me know if that helps. Thanks and good luck!"
Nick: "Hi Dave! Thank you so much for your reply!
Just to update, the LLM pathway is sortof like my back up plan to get into the JD program (because in truth the conversion rate from LLM to JD is historically low in most top schools). Instead, now I will be focusing on applying to the JD program straight. I'll be taking the LSAT this Oct and hope to get a good score.
But I was just wondering about a few other questions:
1. Does the fact that I have a prior undergraduate law degree (LLB) actually enable me to apply for a US JD? I emailed Northwestern and they said yes, but I think Harvard does not allow it.
2. How would my grades in law school as an undergraduate be seen? I understand that each school posts a rough GPA but that is in relation to the US metrics. What are my chances if I did decent in law School in Singapore? Supposedly National Uni of Singapore (NUS), Faculty of Law is the best in Asia - how does the fact that I was an above average (slightly above B) but not very spectacular be viewed in the US (in truth, though NUS enjoys a sterling reputation in Asia, I doubt people in the US have heard of it)?
3. Does the fact that I would have qualified for a Singapore bar, have done my pupillage at an international law firm and have a whole lotta legal internships help in my application?
4. What sort of LSAT score should I set as my target if I wish to get into one of the Top 20 Law schools in US?
5. Lastly, does the fact that I am an international student put me at a disadvantage compared to US applicants?
These are a lot of questions but I sincerely hope to tap into your expertise for this matter. Thanks for your earlier reply again and have a good weekend.
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Thanks for the reply! We've moved into some very specific questions, and as you can see, different schools have different policies. So, for questions #1 and #2, I have to defer to the schools you are applying to--they are the best place to get specific answers.
#3: Yes, it will help, without question
#4: Same scores as any US applicant: mid- to upper-160s into the 170s.
#5: No, plenty are accepted every year!
Thanks!"
Nick: "Dear Dave,
Many thanks for your reply. Just as an update. I got 163 for my LSAT, which is frankly lesser than I wanted (i was hoping at least for a 165). With that said, what do you think are my chances for BU law and USC? and should I apply for early decision to one of the Top 20 schools?
looking forward to your response.
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Your chances are slightly better at BU due to their LSAT medians being lower, if I recall correctly.
Early decision is your call--there has to be a school you love so much you will go there for sure if accepted. That's not always the case for everyone, so it depends on you
Thanks!"
Nick: "Dear Dave,
One last thing, if I were to apply for an early decision application, how would you recommend that i apply? and is it possible to apply ED to more than 1 school? Sincerely appreciate your help!
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Typically if the school has a *binding* ED contract, you can only apply to that one school.
also, here's some info on the value of ED:
https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/applyi ... -not-to-ed
Thanks!"
Nick: "Dear Mr. Killoran,
Thank you so much for your response. Apologies if I've been asking too many questions and sincerely appreciate you taking time to answer them.
1. Just wondering, with a 163, do you think I would stand a good chance if I applied ED to one of the lower ranked T14 schools such as Georgetown or Cornell. The L25 medians of both are 161 and 163 respectively so it seems my 163 is in the ballpark.
2. Secondly, do you have any page on writing personal statements for law school?
Once again, thank you so much for your help!
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
Thanks, it's no problem! My vagueness comes from you are asking me questions that are so broad and have so many variables that I can't give a great answer
Could you get in ED to one of those schools? Sure! Do I know how likely it is? Not really from just your LSAT score. As far as the personal statement, here's my lengthy seminar I did on it. This contains a lot of my thoughts on how to get to a great result:
https://vimeo.com/94191768
Enjoy!"
Nick: "Dear Mr. Killoran,
Thank you for the lengthy seminar! That 1.5 hours was definitely well-spent.
As an aside, do you think that it would be a good idea for me to add an addenda explaining my relatively low LSAT score. The reason I wish to give is that I was simultaneously preparing for and appearing for my Bar examinations here in Singapore (which really was the case) and that if I had enough time to prep I would have done better.
I'm just afraid of the admissions committee looking unfavorably upon it and interpreting it as if I am unable to multi-task. What would your suggestion be?
With Best Regards,
Nick"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Nick,
No, I wouldn't use that explanation. It is never met favorably because it reflects the fact that you either didn't properly prioritize the test or you didn't manage your schedule well enough. And, they'd say, why take it if you weren't totally ready?
Better to not draw attention to that point
"